Interview: Roger Scriven

Madeleine had the pleasure of interviewing Roger Scriven, a highly respected figure with over five decades of experience in the processing tomato industry, known for his instrumental role in shaping agricultural practices and driving significant advancements, particularly through his long tenure at Morning Star and his role as WPTC President.

Click on the picture to watch the video or read the transcript here below.

Great good afternoon. Good morning to you, Roger. I am very happy to be with you today for this interview, because I believe you are one of the first persons I met when I joined Tomato News, and that’s already 8 years ago… I mean time flies. It feels like it was yesterday. But no, it’s already 8 years ago, when we started with when Sophie recruited me for Tomato News. I’ve seen you quite a few times, but I don’t believe I know so much about you and about your career. So that is going to be my first question. Can you introduce yourself and tell us more about your career?

My name is Roger Scriven and I grew up in Northern California. My father sold farm equipment, and we had a small prune orchard I took care of. I also worked for other farmers in the area, mostly with the peach and prune crops.

While at college I did an internship with a company called Tillie Lewis Foods, which was a pioneer company in the tomato industry. Quick history, Tillie started her first tomato cannery in 1935 in Stockton, California and she was one of the leaders in the industry.
I worked the season in 1968 in the peach harvest.  When I graduated from college in June of 1969, I started again as a part time or seasonal employee in the peaches and pears.  In the fall of 1969, after I finished harvesting peaches I went to Woodland to finish up the tomato harvest.  I was hired full time in the fall of 1969 at Tillie Lewis Foods.

So, more than 50 years ago.

Yes, that was long time ago! After I got on full time and I worked at our “northern district”, which included Marysville, Yuba City, Woodland area. Woodland was primarily tomatoes, and a small acreage of spinach. Yuba City and Marysville area was mostly peaches, pears and freestone peaches. I primarily took care of the fruit, and another colleague was in charge of tomatoes.  I spent a lot of time with him in the field, especially during planting season and up until harvest.  Then, after finishing harvesting peaches, I would go help him with the tomatoes or go help one of the other colleagues in another district finish their tomato harvest.
I was transferred to Stockton in 1972, It was a big move for my wife Shirley and I, because she grew up in a small town, and she had never been away from home, and we’d only been married a couple of years when we moved.
I would start the season with the spinach harvest, then asparagus harvest, next apricot harvest, and then back to Marysville for the peaches and pears, and then back home to finish up with tomatoes. I did this for several years. During that time, I had some great tutors that that allowed me to spend time with them, especially talking about vegetables and tomatoes. I would do anything to spend my time with them. If they were going to take a trip down to the Fresno County area to look at tomatoes, I’d volunteer to drive, just to spend the time learning about the industry, learning about tomatoes, and learning about tomato production. One colleague used to grow 13 different vegetables, so it was always interesting to learn about other crops besides tomatoes.
In 1977, I was promoted to manager of agriculture research, and that was a surprise to me because I felt that I didn’t have the background. But my boss said “no, you are kind of inquisitive, so it’s probably a good position for you”. So, I took on the challenge. In order to learn more about tomatoes and tomato processing, I spent a lot of time on the campus at UC. Davis. I spent time in that food science department talking with Bob Pearl, Sherman Leonard, George Marsh and Bill Sims, they are a few names that come to mind.
Also, I spent a lot of time with the tomato breeders from Peto Seed, Castle Seed, Ferry Morse Seed and Goldsmith Seed Company. Our discussions revolved around tomatoes and tomato production and crosses, and where the industry was headed, and trying to further my background and knowledge of the tomato industry.
In the fall of 1983, we went through some changes at Tillie Lewis Foods. One factory in Stockton was sold to Ragu. I moved to Ragu in January 1984.  It was about 5 and a half years with Ragu and then I moved on to Stanislaus and then eventually to Morning Star. So I’ve been around the industry. I’ve done a lot of lot of different things in the industry from being just a general field man I’ve worked a lot of different crops, primarily focusing more and more on tomatoes.
Chris (Rufer) at one time was in the peach business, and he wanted to know if I wanted to go back to peaches, I said “No, I think I’ll stay in the tomatoes”.  That was a good decision on my part, as tomatoes have opened up a whole new world for me through the WPTC. My participation in WPTC allowed me to meet many wonderful people around the world. So it’s a been a great career. I have enjoyed myself, we’ve had our challenges at times, but the rewards have always been good.

So you’ve been with Morning Star since 1993, I believe. In different capacities.

My main focus at MS has always been tomato acquisition. Over the years I have served on several industry boards and committees, the CLFP Ag Committee, Processing Tomato Advisory Board, and WPTC.
In 1986 it was Chris Rufer, Al Boyer from Conagra, me and the Tomato Growers Association, put a marketing order together to change the way Tomato Inspection Services were being directed by the State of California. Not the way we grade, but by doing so we saved the industry I don’t know how many millions of dollars between the processors and growers, and we can continue to save.  I think a lot of people around the world copy what we do, by equipment we use and the procedure and information that is provided.,

And you’re still happy to work in the processing tomato industry. Right? You’re not ready to stop?

Oh no, but I’m slowing way down,

Yeah, okay, slowing down. But you’re not stopping. So, during all this time spent in the processing tomato industry, you must have seen a lot of changes to the industry, to the growing practices. What are some of the changes that you can tell me about?

Well, let’s start with the growers and processors. When I started getting involved in tomatoes in 1969-1970, I think we had approximately 1,350 tomato growers in California.

1,300, wow.

At the time we harvested about 2.5 million tons. We had 56 processing plants doing tomatoes. Now, today we have about 230-240 tomato growers in the state. Our estimate for this year is 10.3 million tons. We only have 15 factories processing tomatoes. So there has been very big changes in the industry. That is just in the grower and processing side.
Tomato paste has become a big commodity. When I started, tomato paste was a just byproduct. There wasn’t much demand for it That started changing in the seventies when the demand for pizza and pasta sauces increased. Then there were processing plants being built to produce nothing but tomato paste. Los Gatos Tomato Products, Ingomar Packing, Campbell Soup and Dixon Canning, at the time were a tomato processing plant for paste only. Now over 70% of our tomatoes in California go into tomato paste. So that’s a that’s a big change from the early 70’s.
I can remember as a kid when the growers would go to a certain location and pick up the transplants that they were going to plant that day. The growers would only get enough plants to plant 5 or 6 acres a day. You have to remember in those days, if you had 150 acres of tomatoes, you were a big tomato grower. This was in the fifties and early sixties.

And was the planting manual or automatized?

We did transplanting with some the same equipment we’re still using today. We used the finger planters back in the 50’s and early 60’s and are still using the same planter today.
In the sixties, the industry started planting direct seed, and the varieties were all open pollinated varieties. I think it was in 1975 that there was a hybrid variety called GS20 that came out, a great variety. The problem with it, the pH was at 4.35.  Unfortunately, it was rejected because of the pH. Hybrids started coming in the seventies, we started seeing more and more of them. Peto Pride 2 came in with F2 disease resistance, now we’re about 99% hybrid seeds. And all the hybrid seed is produced offshore. So that’s changed everything. So we went back to transplants because of the cost of seed.
Harvesting. I remember the first part of my job when I was at Tillie Lewis was to go work in the shop on tomato harvesters. I can remember the first harvesters we bought at Tillie Lewis. I wasn’t employed there yet, but I know the value we paid for them. The company paid $19,500 for them, and we needed 12 people to sort. There were no electronics and if they could pick 6 or 7 loads in a 12 h our day, boy, you were a big-time operator, and that was in wooden bins. Soon we started changing to the modern machines.
The new machines are $500,000-550,000, and they can harvest 60, 70 ton an hour easy and without any sorter due to the electronics.  This was a big change with reduction in labor costs alone.

You also mentioned a lot of consolidation between growers that you had 1,300 growers, and that number reduced a lot, right? Did I understand correctly that when you started there were lots of growers…

Yes, there were a lot of small growers.  Remember in the earlier years if you grew 150 acres of tomatoes in you were considered a big grower and the yields were about 18-20 per acre.

But so what happened? Because now you have much less.

Yes, it was all due to efficiencies and cost of the equipment. It’s a consolidation, you can’t survive on 30 or 50 acres of tomatoes, it just doesn’t work. So the growers have gotten larger, they became more efficient, and equipment has become more sophisticated and more efficient. We’ve spent a lot more capital on equipment and trying to reduce the cost of labor.

Okay.  And with regards to the factories, you said there were 56 in California. And now there are 15. What happened exactly, was it also consolidation or some factories were just closed?

They were closed. It all revolved around their location. A lot of canneries were in what we call the Bay Area, Oakland and  San Jose area. They got pushed out by the cities because of sewage factors and transportation costs.  In Stockton about a half a dozen tomato factories operated at one time, these tomato factories were within the city limits, and they all got pushed out because of the cost of sewage
So that’s why you see these factories that are now located out in the rural areas and not dependent on city sewage systems Boswell, Morning Star, Los Gatos, Ingomar and Dixon Canning are doing so well because they all use drain water out on the fields and not have to go through the city sewage systems.

Exactly. That’s also something more recent. So that’s a lot of changes. How do you see tomato farming evolving in the near future? Can you foresee any more changes?

Well, I see more mechanization, still trying to get away from labor costs.  Using automatic transplanters is one example, now they’re getting better. Every time you turn around, there’s some new improvement to them. We’re getting mechanical weeders and there’s a lot of interest in that from the growers.
We just had a field day for growers here in the Stockton area, to demonstrate 5 or 6 different mechanical weeders. This is another example of more mechanization to get the labor costs down.
We used to plant a lot of fields, 3 beds at a time now we’re up to 5 and 6, and even at Morning Star we’ve planted as many as 8 beds in one pass, As you know, one tractor planting 8 beds versus 3 tractors planting 9 beds makes a big difference.

Definitely, and it goes quicker. So the period planting is shortened as well.

At the time of harvest there are larger blocks of mature fruit available to harvest which increases the efficiency of the harvester.  When we started harvesting, at Morning Star, we used to estimate grower would harvest possibly 20,000 ton in a season. We’re putting 50,-55,000 ton per season through a harvester, so the cost per ton to harvest is much lower.

What challenges do you foresee for growing tomatoes in California in the next 10 years. In terms of climate? Is it going to be a problem? Water, drought…?

It’s always a challenge with water. We’ve been through droughts. I remember the first drought I went through, that was in1977. The farmers are very, very good at managing water. I think that some of the best tomatoes we had were during the drought years, because the management of water was much better.  So, we’re always going to have droughts.
You have seen drought in parts of Spain right?  We have had droughts all over the world. It’s not uncommon. How we manage them is the key to success.  A few years ago, the production in California shifted from southern part of the State up into the Delta, where there’s water. So those shifts will continue to take place. I know the Sustainable Groundwater Management Act (SGMA) is coming into play that’s going to have an significant impact in in the Fresno County area, but it’ll be managed. Growers are planting more pistachios and less almonds, as pistachios require less water, so in case of drought, they could short those crops. Growers are always growing the most profitable crops, so if demand is there, the money’s there, growers will grow. It’s all about basic economic supply and demand.

So what do you expect more, the production of tomato going a bit more south, a bit more north as well?

Climate is another issue. The Bakersfield area was growing a lot of cherries. The industry is moving out of that area because they’re not getting enough chilling hours. So if that continues, it might be a shift further North is a good example of climate change.
The Morning Star factories are located in different parts of the state compared to other processors. We purchase and/or grow in every county that’s growing tomatoes in California that puts everything in an ideal position for changes. So there have been some shifts in production areas over the years and that will continue.  When tomatoes first started, New Jersey was a big producing state and Ohio too, and then in the fifties and sixties it started shifting to California. The growing area in California changed when we opened up the west side with water, and that changed the whole grower and processing community. The challenge is there. The growers will meet that challenge.

One way or another, they will always. Then we just go around it. The water this year is pretty okay, right? So far…

We’re in good shape this year and next year. But who knows what the future brings.

When I was having the conversation with Manuel (Gonçalves) and Manuel  (Vasquez) in Portugal and Spain, the problem is more, I think, the unpredictability of the weather, because one year it might be the drought and the year after it might be too much rain, too much water, like we had recently in south of Europe. So but as you say, I guess farmers will always adapt right.

They’ll adapt.

They’ll rise up to the challenge. Let’s go back to Morning Star  that you joined in 1993. What was the impact of Morning Star to the industry? How has Morning Star changed the way growers grow the tomatoes, and what is processed? What would you say?

Well, I think one of the most positive things is that we are directly involved with the growers. MS provides seeds, plants, and planting to most of our growers. We, er, do the harvesting and   the trucking.
If we just look at the transplanting, our goal is to get the right varieties planted at the right time to meet our customers specifications during processing. We don’t won’t varieties, that should be at the front of the season, show up a month later, when they’re not needed.
The goal of harvesting is to get the growers as many paid tons per acre as we can and try to harvest at the peak of maturity. The traditional way is the processors give the grower a delivery schedule that spreads the harvest over a longer period.  The grower may start harvesting a little bit on the green side and then finish a little on the overripe side. At MS it is common for us to go into field and harvest a hundred hectares of tomatoes in 2 days. The growers really like that. They know we are trying to max out their tonnage, get the best quality and meet what our customer specifications are.

So it’s really this relationship that you have with the growers and the integration between Morning Star and the growers.

Yes.  Then you throw in the transportation part for of the equation. MS does its own trucking of the raw product. We run less equipment than other trucking companies. We are more efficient because of the planting and harvesting so that all adds up. You put all these little pieces together, it doesn’t sound like much, but each coordinated little piece, and soon it all adds up. Does that make sense?

Yes, that makes sense. So do you think Morning Star is going to grow even further? What do you see for the future of Morning Star?

Oh, I haven’t sat with Chris and talked about that since last spring at this time. But Morning Star is still going to be progressive, still going to look for new ways, still going to look for new innovation, still look for efficiencies. The nice thing about Morning Star is our management. We don’t have job titles, everybody’s on the same level. So, if somebody has an idea, he can present that idea directly and not have to go through a chain of command to present it.  One company I worked for, I made a comment about a tomato variety, and I was reprimanded because that was not in my job description to talk about tomato varieties. At Morning Star, you come up with an idea or new technology and it sounds reasonable, you can present it. And Chris, he’s always open to listening to new ideas and new thinking.

I remember that you talked about that when we visited with you, Morning Star, in November, when Sophie (Colvine) and I came for your conference. That was really a big thing, this flatter organization, and the fact t that people didn’t have job titles and that everybody was able to speak and suggest ideas. That I think is really not something that you see often. And I agree that it helps. If you can, if you are not censored, and if you can just give ideas, and maybe they won’t all be good, but at least some will be, and then you help the company grow.

Right. It’s helpful to work directly with those doing the physical tasks.  I don’t care what job it is, they’ve learned to see what the potential problems are, and they know what the solution is. Then the problem is solved much quicker.  Chris is always open to other colleagues’ opinions and thoughts, and he gets a lot of input from many different people, not just the people directly involved in a project, but outside of that, which makes it kind of unique.

Definitely. That’s not something I had seen before, at least. Do you foresee any big challenges for Morning Star in the next few years?

There’s always a challenge of water, varieties and getting seed. Seed is getting to be a big problem, because it’s all offshore production. It’s all hybrid made in China, Taiwan, Vietnam, India, Thailand, it’s made all over the world. But the cost of that seed just keeps going up and up and up. So I think we’re up to $3,500, $3,800 a unit which is only 100,000 seeds. This is much more expensive than what other countries are paying. When I started in the business, we were paying $10- $15 for a pound of seed, which is 160,000 seeds.

Yes, but it was a long, long time ago as well.

Also, California has a lot of regulations, is a more regulated state than in the US.

Do you see maybe tariffs as a challenge as well or not yet.

I can’t answer that question, but I know the way Chris looks at something like this as a opportunity not a challenge.

I agree. Challenge, I mean it in a good way, because I agree that behind every challenge is an opportunity. But it’s true that for the last weeks or months we’ve been talking about tariffs, and the impact it might have. But none of us knows. I’m just mentioning it, because you were talking about the fact that the seeds, that the transplant that that was produced offshore, and I was wondering if there was also an impact on the price from the tariffs or not.

I cannot answer if tariffs have had an impact on the price of seed.

Definitely. So what’s your expectation for this year’s crop? Do you think you’re going to, you mentioned 10.3 short tons, or something earlier. And globally, the new estimate, which has been revised is 39.6. So it looks good for California. So far, you think you’re going to make the forecast?

The tomato fields I’ve seen so far are in the north look really good.  I haven’t been down to Fresno County yet, but the reports I am getting that area looks good also. The fields I’ve looked at around the Stockton area really look good. So at this time, I would say, there’s every indication that 10.3 looks good.

Okay, that’s great. So fingers crossed. About the global forecast, the 39.6, what do you think of this number? Do you think it’s the right number? Do you think it’s going to compensate for the overproduction? What’s your view on that?

Well, I think it’s great. I think it’s good for the whole industry, and the industry should be thankful for the WPTC for putting this estimate together. Year by year, we start seeing trends in countries, we see trends worldwide. We have better knowledge to hopefully make good decisions in the future. I hope it continues because it’s been good for the industry worldwide.

And so you think 39.6 is a good number?

The number is only good if the information provided is accurate.

If we look at the industry globally, what is your view on the future of the industry? Do you think, for instance, that there are going to be new shift of productions between countries? Do you see emerging regions, maybe, or changes in production regions? Or do you see tomato production increasing in the future? What do you think?

Well, start with Argentina, currently they’re building a tunnel thru the Andes mountains to connect the ocean ports in Chile to Argentina.  I am very optimistic that Argentina will increase production once the tunnel is completed.
Canada could probably do another 400,000 or 500,000 tons, if they wanted to. They could make some changes in some facilities or add some facilities.
Brazil, pretty much landlocked. The main tomato producing areas are a considerable distance from ocean ports. I don’t see much growth there.
China. Look where they’re at, so far away from any ocean ports. But a new railroad is being built through Kazakhstan, from Xinjiang Province, into Eastern Europe. This will help China’s trade.
I see a lot of the European countries that have not been producing tomatoes starting to.  These small factories that operate only 4-6 weeks and process 100,000 tons of tomatoes. They also run other products through some of the same tomato equipment.
Africa has a huge potential.
India is another country that has the potential to consume large volumes of processing tomatoes.  We just couldn’t supply them. So there’s opportunities out there.

So, there are many countries where production could grow substantially.

Their volume, it won’t be a volume like California, Italy, Spain, or China, but it’ll be much smaller production areas.

Okay. Coming back to yourself. My next question is, what are you most proud of in your career?

Which one or all of them?

Whatever comes to your mind right now.

All the research that went into the equipment we use for grading and the procedures, and protocols during the 70’s. Helping start PTAB and the money it has saved for the industry.
Working with Chris and building his company from a small company to the largest in the world. We worked hard, putting in a lot of time. The rewards have been good, and it was hard work, but at times we had a lot of fun together. We have great people, and it’s totally different than working in a corporate structure which I’ve done a few of times, I don’t think I could go back to the corporate world

Too much freedom.

Well, Chris gave us the leeway and flexibility to do things, so, we just get things done.  I like working into those types of situations.
Another thing I am proud of is, Larry Tucci from Delmonte and myself started, the California Tomato Conference back in 2003, you’ve attended it, Madeleine, and it’s been fun over the years, bringing growers, processors, seed companies and university folks together. Also, bringing people from different countries in to speak and sharing ideas and creating some camaraderie.  It’s heartwarming to hear guys from California that are going to Spain or Portugal, and they know who to contact over there. You know who to see. It’s been fun, and I’m hoping to continue that, I’ll probably be turning it over one of these days to somebody else.  I’m proud of doing that for our industry here in California, but also for helping other countries and their tomato industry.

Yes, that’s a great achievement. So, if you were starting your career all over again, would you have the same career? Or would you change anything, or maybe, would you go directly to tomato processing?

No, I enjoyed what I did. You know the peaches and other crops, taught me a lot about coordination, coordinating people, and talking to people. I had some great mentors or teachers, or however you want to call them, that taught me a lot, especially how to talk to people and work with people. I’ve met a lot of wonderful people in different areas of food production, whether it’s a university, seed companies, fruit companies, or wherever, and that was fun.
So I wouldn’t change any of that. Maybe the only thing I’d change would be to learn Spanish, and maybe another language or 2, but Spanish speaking is important in California.  All of the farm workers are Hispanic, so it would have been a big help.
One of my winter jobs, when I first started, was to go round to all the processors in California and all the dry yards and backyards and pick up bins and boxes and pallets. So I knew every back alley, every processor, from Chico to Bakersfield and the Bay Area and all over. This was my winter job. It was hard work, it was cold, it was miserable, it was dirty, but I got to learn where everybody was at and knew who the processors were located.
I spent a lot of time learning all I could. I knew all the field men of all the processors on a first name basis. Take a company like Hunt Wesson foods, at the time they did 1.1 million tons of tomatoes, and they had 30, 33 fieldmen. Now they do 450,000 ton and have 2 people.  A few years ago, in the South at MS, it was just 2 of us who did a couple of million tons. So efficiencies are there.
I wouldn’t change what I did, I would change some of the decisions I made for my personal growth, but other than that, no, it’s been good, it’s been fun.

My last question for you, Roger, would be, what advice would you give to a young Roger starting today, if you were to start today. What advice would you give your younger self? Apart from: learn Spanish.

I had great teachers that always responded to all the questions I asked. One thing I always remember is to “Keep your eyes and ears open and listen”.
I attended a lot of industry meetings, farm advisor meetings, seed company meetings, met a lot of people. It’s the networking you do that does a lot to enhance your career.

So always be open to learn from others.

Open to learn. Yes, you’re never too old to learn.

Okay, that’s good advice. Well, thank you very much, Roger. It’s been a pleasure having you today for this interview. And well, thanks again, and I’m glad I learned more about yourself and your career and the industry as well, because I don’t have as much history. So it’s been great to listen to you talking about the industry as well. Thanks again.

Well, thank you, Madeleine. It’s been great speaking with you.